The Minten Sisters

The Minten Sisters
Dorothy, Janie, and Esther visiting with Santa at his house (Santa Claus House) in North Pole, Alaska on July 15, 2017

Wheat Belly--Our way of eating

Many of you know that I (Janie) started a way of eating called Wheat Belly on October 4, 2011. At that time, my sister, Esther and our cousin, Mickey Landrum, started it, too.  Dorothy follows this lifestyle partially. On this page I am posting things that might help others experience this lifestyle of eating and all the health benefits that accompany it.

     *Pictures of us (before in 2011 and 4 years later in 2015)
     *Helpful info for the Wheat Belly lifestyle including:
          -Websites that help and encourage the Wheat Belly lifestyle
          -Books that I have read that also help and encourage this lifestyle
          -A list of products that I use and where I buy them
     *Some of my own recipes



The first picture shows the four of us at the port of San Diego before the three of us departed on a Panama Canal cruise in April of 2011.  (Mickey drove us there from Anaheim.) We all started Wheat Belly six months later.

The second one was taken in June, 2015--four and one/half years later. What you are seeing is a 215 pound weight loss between the four of us.

WHEAT BELLY really works to lose weight, keep it off, lower blood glucose levels, and just generally improve health in every way! 


Esther, Dorothy, Mickey, & Janie
in April, 2011

Mickey (68), Esther (84), Janie (71), Dorothy (87)
June, 2015



Click on the the names which are the links.

Dr. William Davis's Wheat Belly Blog (You can sign up to receive new posts by email--highly recommended.)

Maria Emmerich for great advice and recipes

Satisfying Eats for more wonderful low carb recipes

Wheat Free Market Foods is approved, but not owned by Dr. Davis.

to order pre-made mixes and other wheat/grain free foods
The sweetener, Virtue, is really good (1/4 tsp. equals 1 tsp. of sugar and other granulated sweeteners).
I love the All Purpose Baking Mix, Pizza Crust Mix, Muffin Mixes, etc.

They have lots of recipes to download.

Helpful Books to Read
(Hardback, paperback, and Kindle versions)

Books by Dr. William Davis, M.D., cardiologist

Wheat Belly-Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight
Wheat Belly Total Health
Wheat Belly 10-Day Grain Detox
Wheat Belly Cookbook
Wheat Belly Cookbook (30 Minutes or Less)
Wheat Belly Journal
His newest book; UNDOCTORED

Other books to read:

The Great Cholesterol Myth
by Jonny Bowden, PH.D., C.N.S. and Stephen Sinatra, M.D., F.A.C.C.
Grain Brain by Dr. David Perlmutter
Brain Maker by Dr. David Perlmutter
Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes
Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes
Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox-How a Little Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life 
by Dr. Kate Rheaume-Bleue, BSc., ND
The Big FAT Surprise by Nina Teicholz
How I Gave Up My Low-Fat Diet and Lost 40 Pounds
by Dana Carpender

To figure net carbs, subtract fiber grams from carbohydrate grams. You can also subtract sugar alcohol grams from total carbs.

Excellent website that gives you over 6000 foods with Total Carbs, Fiber, and Net Carbs


List of products and places where I buy them:

  1. Almond flour - (It is also available on This is a really fine grind and excellent for baking.
  2. NOW FOODS Organic Unsweetened, Undutched Cocoa Powder -
  3. H-E-B brand Almond Milk Unsweetened (Best tasting I've had. Only available in Texas.)
  4. Pink Himalayan Salt (Spice Lab Finely Ground) at (Regular table salt is NOT good for us!) Any pink salt or Celtic Sea Salt is good. Morton's Sea Salt is not!
  5. Macadamia Nut Meal -
  6. Virtue Sweetener (*The products sold by this business are approved by Dr. William Davis, author of the Wheat Belly books. HOWEVER, he does not own the company! They sell a number of wheat and totally grain/sugar free foods and mixes. They also have a LOT of recipes.)
  7. Coconut Oil - Central Market Brand at H.E.B. (even in Falfurrias, TX!!)
  8. Gelatin (Hydrolyzed Collagen in the green canister) (I order a case of 12, because there are three of us using this. You can get one can at to try it out. It's less expensive per can at the GLG website, but you have to order 6 or 12.)
  9. Gelatin (in the red cannister) from the same company. This kind thickens and congeals just like Knox Gelatin does. I order this from and it should be available at stores like Sprouts, Natural Grocers, etc.
  10. EZ Sweetz (liquid Splenda) (I carry this little container in my purse for convenience.) I use Virtue and Swerve in cooking and baking.
  11. H.E.B. Uncured Bacon (Applewood or Pecan smoked) is available in their larger stores (Alice, Kingsville, Corpus Christi, but alas, not in Falfurrias!) It is actually better than any other brand I've ever tried. I buy 8 to 12 packages at a time when we're in one of the cities/towns above. Then I freeze it. I bake a whole package at a time. Set oven to 275, put the slices on a parchment paper lined cookie sheet that has sides, bake for 40 minutes. 


Scroll down to find:

Easy Biscuits
Mickey Landrum's Pancakes
Mickey's Bread
Homemade Chili Con Carne (Chili with Meat)
Broccoli/Cauliflower Salad with Dressing
Janie's Cauliflower Soup
Janie's Broccoli Cheese Soup
Janie's Caulibrozuc Soup
Caramelized Green Beans
Sausage Biscuits (or Sausage Balls)
Sweet Dijon Mustard Vinaigrette Salad Dressing
Chocolate Pie
"Milk Shake"



2 cups blanched almond flour
¼ to ½ teaspoon salt (Real Salt, Pink Himalayan Salt, or Celtic Sea Salt
½  teaspoon baking soda
2 teaspoons baking powder (aluminum free)

3 tablespoons “cold” butter – diced
4 ounces brick-style cream cheese – diced

1 large egg – beaten
¼ cup heavy whipping cream

2 additional tablespoons butter – melted

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F.
Line a cookie sheet with parchment paper.

Sift the almond flour, salt, baking soda, and baking powder together into a medium-sized bowl. Mix it well.

Added the diced butter and cream cheese. Mix it up to coat the diced pieces so they will not all stick together.

Cut them into the dry ingredients until crumbly. Use a pastry cutter/dough blender/or two knives like our mothers used to do
Add the beaten egg and mix into the dough.

Stir in the cream and mix in lightly.
Let it sit for a minute or two.

Divide the dough into 10 or 12 equal pieces. Roll into balls, but not tightly. Place them on the parchment lined cookie sheet. Do NOT press them down and you will have a thicker biscuit.

Bake at 350 degrees for 15 minutes; remove from oven and brush tops with melted butter, if desired. Return to oven and bake an additional approximately 3-5 minutes or they are a light golden brown. Be careful not to overcook.

If you don’t brush them with butter, bake for a total of 18-20 minutes.


Mickey Landrum's Pancakes

1 cup                       Almond Flour
1 teaspoon               Coconut Flour
1 teaspoon               Baking Powder (aluminum free)
¼ teaspoon              Salt (Himalayan Pink or Celtic Salt)
½ rounded tsp.        Virtue Sweetener (Wheat Free Market)
2 teaspoons of any sugar equivalent sweetener (or to taste)

Mix the dry ingredients together.

3 Large Eggs (separated)
¼ cup                       water or club soda (I use water.)
2 Tablespoons          Butter-melted (grassfed if possible)
2 Tablespoons          Sour Cream
¼ to 1 teaspoon       Vanilla (I use only ¼ tsp organic vanilla)
(or to taste)

Separate the eggs.

Stir the egg yolks until smooth. Add the water (or club soda), melted butter, sour cream, and vanilla and stir until well mixed.

In another bowl, beat the egg whites until stiff.

Add the liquid ingredients to the egg whites and fold them in. Then fold all the liquid ingredients into the dry ingredients until well mixed.

Pour ¼ cup of batter onto griddle. (These do not spread out, so using the back of a spoon or spatula, spread them out gently.) These do not form bubbles, so keep an eye on them and turn when browned. When each of the pancakes is done, I put it on a parchment paper lined cookie sheet in a warm oven to keep them hot.

Serve with Walden Farms Carb Free Syrup and butter (or whatever makes your taste buds happy!)


(Makes great hamburger buns, hot dog buns, grilled cheese sandwiches, breakfast toast, etc.)


1 Cup             Almond Flour
1 Cup             Macadamia Nut Flour (It is much courser than the almond flour, but it       gives the bread a little crunch!
1 Cup             Ground Golden Flax Seed
3 Tbsp.          Coconut Flour
1 Tbsp.          Baking Powder

Put all of this in a large zipper bag and shake it up until it is thoroughly mixed.
Then store it in the refrigerator.



In a large bowl, mix together:

1 cup  dry mixture
1 cup grated cheese of your choice (I use whole milk mozzarella.)
½  tsp. Wheat Free Market VIRTUE sweetener (optional)

In a 2 cup measuring cup or a medium bowl:

Melt 4 tablespoons of butter
Add ¼ cup of sour cream to the melted butter
Mix together with a whisk.
Add and whisk in 3 large eggs to the butter and sour cream

Add the wet ingredients to the dry ingredients and mix well.
Let it sit for a few minutes so the coconut flour can be absorbed.

This makes 6 pieces in a muffin top pan. However, I just put a piece of parchment paper on an insulated cookie sheet and drop them using about ¼ cup for each piece. Take a wet spatula or tablespoon and spread them out kind of thin. They will rise and spread out as they bake!!

Bake at 350° for 20 minutes or until golden brown.


What I found easy to do is put the batter in a covered bowl and store it in the refrigerator after I get it made. When I want hot bread, I just take it out and FRY a couple of pieces on a griddle or in a skillet.  Flip it over and fry on the other side—sort of like pancakes. I fry it in bacon grease, butter, coconut oil or avocado oil. Remember, spread it out on the griddle top (or skillet) using a wet spatula or big spoon.  It will rise and spread out as it cooks. 



It makes around a gallon! We eat some, I keep a little out for another meal. and then I freeze 3 quart jars full for future use.

4 lbs. hamburger
1 large onion
4 cloves garlic
1 Tbs. of cooking oil (I use avocado oil)
2 Tbs. chili powder
3 Tbs. Cumin
Salt and pepper to taste
2 14 oz. cans tomatoes
1 can Rotel Tomatoes (I use mild)
3 cups of water

Cut up onions and garlic and sauté in oil until tender

Add meat and brown it, breaking up into smaller pieces and stirring often

Add salt & pepper and then simmer the mixture for a few minutes.

Add the chili powder and cumin and simmer for a few more minutes.

Add all three cans of tomatoes and the water. 
Simmer for 2 1/2  hours.

I then use a submersible hand-held blender to blend it together. We don’t like the big chunks of meat and tomatoes when we eat it. Also, if you do this you don’t have to dice your onions and garlic into such small pieces. 


Broccoli/Cauliflower Salad with Dressing

1/2 large head (or a whole head if it's small) of cauliflower torn apart and chopped into small pieces.
2-3 crowns of broccoli torn apart and chopped into small pieces.
1/2 cup of dried cranberries
1/3 (or more) cup of chopped pecans

4 - 6 slices very crispy, crumbled bacon 

Mix the cauliflower and broccoli together in a large bowl.

Make the dressing. I actually double the recipe of the dressing and then use it on coleslaw, too.

1 cup of mayonnaise (Hellman's Real Mayonnaise or your favorite kind)
2 Tablespoons Apple Cider Vinegar (Organic, Raw, Unfiltered "With the Mother")
1 Tablespoon lemon juice or red wine vinegar
4 drops of EZ Sweetz (or you can use 1/2 cup of sugar [Heaven forbid!!!!!], or the sweetener of your choice to taste)

Mix these wet ingredients together really well. Add the cranberries, bacon and pecans to the dressing, stir it together, and pour it over the veggies and mix it to coat all of it."
Cover and refrigerate until time to serve.


Janie’s Cauliflower Soup

One head of fresh, creamy white cauliflower without brown spots, torn apart and microwaved for 10-12 minutes in a glass bowl – Allow to cool

½ or even a whole large onion microwaved until tender

2 cloves (or more to taste) garlic diced into small pieces and microwaved with the onion

3 cups vegetable broth
(I use Central Market Organics broth—this is an H.E.B. product in Texas and available at their stores.)

4 oz. full fat cream cheese

½ cup full fat sour cream

1/3 cup heavy whipping cream

¼ cup shredded fresh parmesan cheese

1 cup shredded/grated cheddar cheese

1 teaspoon Pink Himalayan salt or Celtic Sea Salt (not regular salt and not Morton’s sea salt!)

6 slices of crisply cooked uncured bacon with the dripping reserved (I cook a whole package of bacon in the oven at 275° for 40 – 50 minutes until crisp.)

Pepper to taste

Blend part of the cooked cauliflower, onion, and garlic with some of the vegetable broth and the cream cheese. (I use a submersible blender.) Put the blended mixture into a pan.

Blend some more of the cauliflower, onion, and garlic with some more of the broth. This time add the cream cheese. Add to the pan.

Blend the rest of the cauliflower, onion, and garlic with any broth that is left, plus the sour cream, and heavy whipping cream. Add to the pan.

Cook over medium heat, adding the salt, parmesan cheese, and cheddar cheese.

When the cheeses are melted, add the bacon grease and the 6 slices of crumbled bacon.

Cook over medium heat long enough to blend the flavors and until it is hot.

Serve, adding more cheddar cheese to garnish and pepper to taste.

Broccoli Cheese Soup

3 stalks of fresh broccoli
8 oz. full fat cream cheese
1 32 oz. box (or 4 cups) of Vegetable Broth (I use Central Market Organics Vegetable Broth - available at H.E.B. Stores in Texas.)
1/2 cup Heavy Whipping Cream
1 cup of water
1 1/2 teaspoon Pink Himalayan Salt or Celtic Sea Salt
1 1/2  teaspoon Garlic Powder
1 1/2 teaspoon Onion Powder
2 Cups grated full fat Cheddar Cheese (or cheese of your choice--must be full fat)
Pepper to taste (optional--it can be added later by those who like it.)

Cut the end of the broccoli stalks (about an inch) off and discard.

Cut the rest of the stalks into one inch sections. Tear or cut apart the florets. 
Put off broccoli into a bowl and add water to cover. Add 1/2 cup of vinegar. Let stand for 15 or 20 minutes to clean the broccoli. Rinse well.

Put wet florets and stem pieces in a microwavable container (I prefer glass or porcelain) with a cover. Cover and microwave 10 minutes. Check for doneness and microwave a several minutes longer if needed.

Pick out stem pieces, put them in a food processor, blender, or Nutribullet with a cup of the vegetable broth and part of the cream cheese. Blend completely.

Pour this mixture into a large pot or sauce pan.

Reserve 3/4 or 1 cup of the florets.

Process the rest of the florets with the remaining broth, cream cheese, water, and heavy whipping cream. Depending on the size of the machine you are using, you may have to divide these up into two or three groups.

Put all of the processed liquids and broccoli into the pot. Sprinkle the garlic and onion powder and salt over the top and stir in.

Chop the reserved florets into small pieces with a knife and add them to the mixture. Cook over medium heat, stirring occasionally to keep it from sticking.

When the mixture is hot, add the cheese and stir until it melts. 

Serve while hot. Add pepper individually if wanted.

(for lack of a better name!)

Fresh or leftover broccoli and cauliflower to make about 4 cups. 

I had 1½ zucchinis that were going to dry up, so I peeled and cut them up and added them to this.

1 large onion cut up (Pieces don’t have to be small.)



4 cups of organic Vegetable broth

All of the cooked veggies


 8 oz       pkg of cream cheese (cut in about 8 pieces)

½ cup    sour cream

½ cup    heavy whipping cream (organic--no carageenan) I put enough hot water in the empty cup to get the cream residue off the sides and added it to the soup mixture—didn’t want to waste any of that delicious cream.

1½ tsp   Organic Garlic Powder (or you can use 3 or 4 cloves of garlic steamed with the veggies)

1½ tsp   Pink Himalayan Salt (or any other pink salt or sea salt – just don’t use table salt or Morton’s sea salt)


Put it back on the stove and simmer.

Add 1 cup grated cheddar cheese and stir it in until melted.

Pepper to taste (Optional or can be added individually at the table)

Crumbled bacon (6 crispy slices with the drippings reserved) (Optional or can be added individually at the table)

Dorothy and Esther don’t want pepper, so I add it to mine at the table.

I didn’t have any bacon cooked, and anyway, Dorothy doesn’t like bacon crumbled up in stuff like Esther and I do!! So, Esther and I added a teaspoonful of bacon grease to our bowl of soup.

Sprinkle some more grated cheddar cheese on top of the bowl of soup.

Eat this soup with crackers. Scroll down for the recipe.



6 – 8 oz. of thick cut bacon

1 onion (any color—white, yellow, or red)

4 large cloves of garlic

Sliced fresh mushrooms (optional)

¾ cup pecan pieces (more if you want!)

1pound (or more) fresh green beans or you can use frozen green beans, but NEVER canned!

Granlated sugar substitute equivalent to 2 teaspoons

(Wheat Free Market Foods "Virtue" sweetener would need only 1/2 teaspoon to be equivalent.)

Cut the bacon into ¾ inch pieces and put them in a large skillet over medium heat.

Cut the onion into 8 wedges and then cut into pieces. Add them to the bacon.

Chop the garlic into small pieces. Add it to the mixture.

Saute, stirring often, until bacon is done and onions and garlic are soft.

Cut the green beans into 2 – 3 inch long pieces.

Remove the bacon, onion, and garlic from the skillet. 

Leave the bacon grease in the skillet and add the green beans.

Cover and cook them, stirring often until they are tender.

Be careful that they don't burn.

Add back the bacon, onion, and garlic mixture and add the mushrooms and pecans.

Sprinkle the sweetener over this mixture and stir well.

Continue cooking, stirring often until everything is done!



Here is my cracker recipe.  They are delicious! It started out as a recipe I got from a website, but then I started changing it, so I consider it to be MY recipe now.  The original had only almond flour, but it is so much better with ½ almond and ½ macadamia. I also added the garlic and onion powders and chia seeds.  Now I’ve changed it from cheddar to mozzarella cheese, because it is a milder taste and goes with everything.  It’s even good with peanut butter or almond butter and jelly. (Nature’s Hollow sugar free preserves or make your own.)

I get 24 crackers about 2 X 2 ½ inches each.   There is approximately ¼ carb in each cracker.

¼ cup macadamia nut meal/flour             (2 carbs)
¼ cup almond meal/flour                            (3 carbs)
¼ tsp. baking soda          
¼ tsp. garlic powder
¼ tsp. onion powder
¼ tsp. Pink Himalayan Salt or Celtic Sea Salt
1 heaping Tbsp. ground chia seed           (0 carbs)
½ cup packed grated cheddar or mozzarella cheese (needs to be a fine grate, full fat) (2 carbs if pkg. pre-grated)
Use any grated full fat hard cheese that you want! Be creative!)

Mix all these ingredients together in a bowl. Mix well! 

1 Tbsp. of egg white (You can use the kind in a carton.)
1 Tbsp. of any compliant oil (Compliant oils are saturated or monounsaturated. I use avocado oil.)

Beat the egg white until frothy 
Add the oil and continue to beat the two together .

Pour this liquid mixture into the bowl with the dry ingredients and mix well.  If it is crumbly or too stiff, add a few drops of water. I start mixing with a spatula, but then I finish if off by hand.)

Take half of it and shape into a ball. Place on a piece of nonstick foil or parchment paper and press it down to about ½ inch thickness.  Put a piece of parchment paper on top and roll out to desired thinness with a rolling pin. For crispy crackers, it needs to be pretty thin.

Remove the top piece of paper, put the crackers (leave them on the foil or parchment paper) on a cookie sheet, and bake at 350 degrees for 8 minutes. Remove from oven and cut to the desired size with a pizza cutter.  Put it back in the oven and bake for another 3 minutes. Check it so it doesn't burn!

Remove from oven and let them cool. Break the crackers apart and store in an airtight container after they cool.

I quadruple this recipe and then divide the dough into four equal parts. I bake one and put the other three in plastic bags and keep in the fridge for the next time we want them. You can even freeze the dough.
This also makes a great pizza crust (especially the one made with mozzarella) when rolled out a little thicker. You can add some Italian seasoning. Bake it for about 10 minutes, let it cool a little, add toppings, and bake again for 10 -15 minutes. Precook meat toppings.



Sausage "Biscuits"

Make the crackers above, using these amounts:

1 cup almond flour

1 cup macadamia meal
1 tsp. baking soda
1 1/2 tsps. garlic powder
1 1/2 tsps. onion powder
1 tsp. Pink Himalayan Salt or Celtic Sea Salt

Mix these ingredients well, making sure all lumps are broken up.

Beat together 4 Tbsps. egg white and 4 Tbsps. oil (I use avocado oil, but any monounsaturated or saturated oil will do.)

Then mix 2 cups of grated CHEDDAR cheese, beaten egg whites and oil together and add 1 pound of bulk sausage (I use Owens Natural sausage with no msg, etc.)

When it is thoroughly mixed, mix it with the dry ingredients (I have found that you have to do it by hand), roll into balls and press down to make a "biscuit." Bake at 350 degrees for 15 to 20 minutes depending on the size of your "biscuit."

You can also make sausage balls by just rolling into balls and not pressing down.

Make however many you want, and then store the extra "dough" in the freezer. You can divide it and place in separate containers for freezing.
These are delicious!


Sweet Dijon Mustard Vinaigrette Salad Dressing

2 Tablespoons Walnut Oil or compliant oil of your choice (no seed oils like corn or soybean)
1 Tablespoon Red Wine Vinegar
2 Teaspoons Grey Poupon Dijon Mustard made with white wine
3 drops of EZ Sweetz (liquid Splenda) or equivalent amount of any liquid sweetener
(Adjust sweetness to your own taste.)

Put all ingredients in a small jar, cover, and shake until well mixed.

You can double, triple, etc., the recipe to make the amount that you need.


Chocolate Pie

Makes 1 pie filling:
5 scant tablespoons sifted unsweetened cocoa powder (non-dutched is best)

1 Tablespoon gelatin  (Great Lakes Gelatin in red canister or Knox Gelatin)

3 Tablespoons Wheat-Free Market Foods Virtue sweetener (+ a couple of drops of liquid sweetener (EZ Sweetz, stevia, etc. to taste)

1 ½ cups of Milk (whole milk, almond milk, coconut milk, etc. 
(Soy milk is NOT a good choice of non-dairy.)
3/4 cup heavy cream
1 teaspoon vanilla extract

In a small pan combine the sifted cocoa powder, gelatin and sweetener. Add milk, cream, and liquid sweetener and whisk over medium-low heat. Whisk and cook until bubbles begin to form on the side of the pan and the cocoa powder has been dissolved. Stir in vanilla. .

Pour over the baked crust of your choice.

My Crust Recipe:
1 cup of pecans blended into meal

1/8 cup Virtue Sweetener

2 Tbsp. egg white beaten until foamy

3 Tbsp. melted butter

Mix it all together, spread out in a pie plate, and bake for 12 - 15 minutes.

Put the pie in the refrigerator overnight.
Serve topped with a couple of tablespoons of whipped Heavy Whipping Cream (without carrageenan if possible). H.E.B. Central Market Organics brand is good.

(1 cup of cream – whipped has 3.35 grams carbs)


"Milk Shake"

I often drink a "shake" for my evening meal. With it, I usually have several of my crackers with a piece of H.E.B. sliced, full-fat, Muenster cheese. Here's what's in the shake:
ice cubes (for a thin milky drink, add 3 ice cubes; for a thick drink add up to 10 ice cubes)
1 rounded tablespoon Great Lakes Gelatin (hydrolyzed collagen-green canister) 
1 heaping tablespoon unsweetened cocoa powder (I use NOW FOODS Cocoa) 
1 tablespoon coconut oil
2 pinches Pink Himalayan Salt
1/2 teaspoon vanilla
Sweetener of your choice to taste!
Optional: a heaping tablespoon of natural, unsweetened peanut butter.

Put all of this in a blender that can handle the ice cubes! Blend it until smooth.


  1. You are such an inspiration to me. I wish I lived closer to you!

  2. Fantastic! My sis and I need to do this.

  3. At 54, I felt too old to make a change. . . You have given me hope!

    1. Laurie Bowers, it is NEVER too late! I was 67 when I started Wheat Belly and now I'm going to be 72 this coming Wednesday!!

  4. You have done an amazing job! Will be shopping for ingredients tomorrow. I have most but not all. I'm trying to convince my daughter to go grain free. It makes such a difference. Anymore great recipes would be so appreciated.

    1. There are so many websites with recipes. Try and click on recipes.

  5. Look forward to hearing more about this when I see you, on Nov. 2,2017. Kathy